Tiles

I promised a more detailed update on what little work we did over the last 2 years and here it is.

We're mostly done tiling the small WC and the larger bathroom but not quite there yet. I'd have loved to do a real vintage-style tile design but this is a family job and my parents own the house, so they had a substantial say in this. In the end after lengthy discussions we agreed on plan white 8x8 (20x20 cm) tiles with black skirting (base trim) and border. Shopping for tile was an experience in itself since this plan was absolutely against current fashion trends. First we went to a small tile and construction supplies store. Most of the tiles the elderly owner showed us were huge (up to 12x24 or 30x60 cm) and beige-y or grey. I said we didn't want beige or grey tiles because they didn't look too good with our existing wood ceiling. To which he replied: "You have to lower the ceiling and plasterboard it anyway! For the recessed lights!" (he used the pseudo-English word "Spots" and pronounced it "Shpotts", which sounds like Spott, German for ridicule). At that point I was ready to ignore all his advice.

Off we went to the next store. They had a small selection of smaller white and solid-coloured tiles and we eventually agreed on the cheapest. This manufacturer didn't offer border tiles and we thought we could avoid ordering Villeroy & Boch borders by cutting our own.

For the floor we chose black and white tiles from the same manufacturer for a chequered pattern (and mentioned this plan to the sales girl). This bit of info will become important later. Order time was 4-6 weeks so we had some time for other stuff. The two rooms are small (the bathroom is 2.35x1.85 m or slightly over 8x6' and the WC is only 0.9x1.2 m or 3x4') and we didn't tile up to the ceiling but we still had a lot of tile boxes. Heavy boxes! I can't remember the weight but I think we essentially maxed out my parents' trusty old Mitsubishi van since we also loaded about 150 kg of thinset and 50 kg of self-leveling floor leveler.

Tiling was a rather time-consuming process, especially the small bits and pieces. The large sections of wall that mostly use whole tiles go reasonably fast and then when it comes to cutting every single tile progress slows to snail's pace. I'm not awfully fond of tiling either but at least I'm getting better at it. My first tile job far back in 2002 definitely sucked!
We did the whole job almost without power tools, except for a drill with masonry bit. Our tools were a traditional tile cutter (first we borrowed one from a friend's mom, then I bought a used one for 5 Euros and finally we broke down and bought a new one for 65 Euros), a carbide file, tile nippers and a large tile saw (looks like a giant coping saw). For the softer wall tiles these tools are rather easy to use but for the hard floor tiles the file was essentially useless and the saw was hard on the arms as well. On the other hand the hand saw allows for rather intricate cuts that just aren't possible using a wet tile saw or angle grinder. Electric tile saws are great for some kinds of tile (I once had to lay large rock-hard floor tiles with a surface scored to look like small brick with wide joints and those were impossible to cut without a wet tile saw) but generally I like an old-fashioned tile cutter better. It doesn't make much noise, it's a lot less dangerous and it doesn't make a mess since the tiles are scored and broken rather than cut.

Since I didn't exactly trust the floor to be level I started one course above the floor and nailed small strips of wood to the walls as guides. Some things I learned the hard way about this method:
- Don't use dabs of thinset in addition to nails unless you're sure you can take down the guide strips again within a few hours
- Make absolutely sure you put these strips up level
- Make absolutely sure to put these strips up at the correct height!

I didn't and so we ended up having lower skirtings in the bathroom.

I also calculated the number of tiles I'd need for each wall and if I'd have ended up with a very narrow strip on one side I'd start with half tiles instead of whole ones. That way you have half a tile on one side and slightly more than half on the other instead of a whole one on one side and a narrow strip on the other. Things you learn on the web and from watching tile layers!

Cutting the trim pieces was more of a challenge than we'd expected. The borrowed tile cutter wasn't awfully precise and our first own one even less so. In the end our trim pieces varied in height by up to 1 mm, which is noticeable if you have 2.5 mm joints. Nobody's perfect...

The old window was rotted beyond repair and one casement was already a non-matching replacement so we decided to replace the whole window. We definitely didn't care for a repeat performance with Mr. D who bodgered our other two new windows so we looked into other options. A local carpenter never bothered to actually make an offer so we decided he probably wasn't interested. In the end we decided on a "long-term temporary" compromise. Unlike most traditional Austrian windows (that are actually two sets of windows in a common frame in order to increase insulation) this was actually two windows in one opening, each with its own frame. Therefore we decided to leave the outer window in place for looks and replace the inner set of casements with an undivided double-glazed casement. Doesn't look good but cost about 1/3 of a proper wooden replacement window (i.e. a set of two true-divided light casements). Waiting for the window to be delivered and installed (8 weeks order time) slowed down our progress considerably.

Once we opened the first boxes of floor tiles we knew we were in BIG trouble. Instead of being the same size, the black tiles were several mm smaller than the white ones in both directions! We immediately called the store and complained, only to be told: "You want to mix different colours? You mustn't do that! You always have to check with the manufacturer if that's possible before ordering! Variations of up to 5% are perfectly acceptable!". Continental European customer service at its finest, customers begging for the mercy of being granted the honour of buying something. We did bother to mention that a) we HAD in fact mentioned that we intended to mix and b) the differency considerably exceeded 5% but at that time we didn't really want to return all the tile to Vienna and start shopping and arguing from scratch again.

Instead we used creative spacing and made do with what we had. That worked, although with the unfortunate side effect that the white grout really emphasises the size difference. I guess we'll have to live with it. My parents suggested black grout for the bathroom but I think that'll get dirty rather quickly.

The floor itself is interesting as well. The base is a thin concrete slab. On top of that we put down pink foam board with a fibreglass mesh and cement coat. This type of insulation is specifically designed as a tiling substrate. It's laid in thinset using a notched trowel and that's one of its core weaknesses. There are always some air bubbles below the foam board and in those spots any object falling on the finished tile floor makes weird hollow noises. And there are quite a few of those spots! Another issue is the amount of flex in the foam board. In order to prevent the tile floor from cracking we used flexible modified thinset and flexible grout. Furthermore, we put down plastic mesh before applying the thinset. In the WC I only covered the seams, in the bathroom I simply put down mesh everywhere.

Anyway, that's where we are now:

Comments

Ok, I'm done with comments on blogger. As of today I noticed that the captchas have become utterly unintelligible so unless they change their design again I won't be able to comment on blog posts any more.

Floor Update

Old Austrian ceilings are usually rather complex.
The load-bearing layer is the usual plaster&lath setup with heavy timbers as joists (and I mean HUGE, the ones in my bedroom are something like 18 by 28 cm or 7x11"!). On top of it there is a board-and-batten subfloor. The battens are designed to keep the layer above from falling down, that is the sound insulation. The easiest way of reducing sound transmission through a ceiling is sheer weight and the old-timers knew that. So they simply shoveled 10 cm+ (4") of sand, clay, broken mortar, bricks and other construction debris on top of the lower subfloor. In this dirt fill they embedded sleepers (2x3s) for either the second subfloor (in case of herringbone) or the finished floor (planks).

The old mix weighs around a tonne per cubic metre and did a decent job. Modern alternatives are often MUCH lighter (200-300 kg) and much worse. The best option in terms of weight would have been clay but that is expensive and needs to dry for a loooong time. Therefore after lengthy negotiations we chose Liapor Fit, which is double-fired clay granulate.

The battens in this room were partially damaged, put on crooked right from the beginning plus there were some splits and knots in the floor that allowed the old fill to fall down into the joist space. We requested the floor to be covered with paper or felt to prevent this but the contractor refused to do that. His guys did take some old boards and nailed them over the worst holes (after we told them) and filled some other gaps with *gasp* expanding foam. Then they built the subfloor.

Yesterday I worked on the wiring for the ceiling light one floor below and the instant I touched the cable I was showered with Liapor! Upon closer inspection we also discovered a nice sink hole above! That means there's a substantial hole (or in fact there are probably several as I found at least two sink holes) through which the nice new stuff can disappear!

On the plus side today the painters showed up to remove the leftover old distemper and skim the walls. Tomorrow they're supposed to shellac the water stains and skim another time. Then it's on to painting!

Progress

We spent Easter hurrying to complete a bunch of details since our mason promised to start plastering if we finished. So we spent the better part of two days scraping loose mortar/plaster out of brick joints in the front room and wired both the small bedroom and the last missing outlet in the front room.

With that done, the mason could finally plaster the front room! The first room that looks like a room again! Whoooooppppeeee!

This
                           became this







PS: I just realised that I'd never finished this post, probably because I found posting pictures too annoying. So I decided to post it with just these two pictures. The second picture is just a "during", taken before the finish coat was applied.

Again, a loooooong time has passed without updates. The flat I mentioned in the last post is mainly done, except the owner now wants to install central heating (great idea to replace the boiler just after we finished tiling the kitchen!). Only she didn't have time and energy to deal with plumbers, so the place is still sitting empty and half-finished (and half-full of old crap still).

In September work started at my home. We were scheduled to switch from combi boilers in every flat to a central wood pellet boiler in the cellar, which involved a stainless steel liner in an old chimney (inlcuding grinding out the flue to enlarge it), running big pipes in abandoned flues and just about trashing all the bathrooms, replacing the sleek combi boilers with pumps, meters, heat exchangers and plenty of exposed copper and PVC pipework - and of course plenty of rewiring, as the bloody boiler requires 3-phase 400 V power! The installation went on well into November and the hot water supply STILL doesn't work properly - the plumbers have to change some menu settings and replace a relay in every flat.

On Dec. 21 we had our little personal apocalypse when the top floor flat burned out and the firefighters flooded all three flats below. All my personal belongings (except for the mattress and some other minor items) were saved, but the plaster ceiling suffered and the oak herringbone parquet had standing water overnight, even though we used every bucket and tub we could find in the house. After MUCH debate with the insurance company, the floor was taken out to dry. Currently, the new subfloor is in and we are trying to finish some while-we-are-at-it wiring before the painters come in on Monday to scrape the old paint and skim-coat the walls and ceiling. Then it's on to painting and re-installing the floor. I'm still not sure how much I trust the contractors and what I'll let them do.

I also rewired parts of my cousin's flat (below ours), pretty much in the nick of time to prevent another fire. Some of the wiring was 100 years old and completely brittle. A note of caution to everybody: flush halogen fixtures are a sure way to fry the wiring inside the ceiling, especially (but not only) if it's old! And bare wires in a wooden (plaster and lath) ceiling are a sure recipe for disaster!

Progress at the farm has been minimal. We did get the WC tiled and mostly finished (only missing sink and door plus some painting), the better part of the bathroom is tiled, the bath is in (but not tiled yet) and two floors are done.

I removed the floor from the last post again, you can read all the gory details here:
https://www.wavyglass.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=60

We also installed a new larch floor in the small bedroom. This one had been stored in the house for months, so it worked fine. It still needs to be finished though.

Floored

Last time I showed you pictures of our beautiful new wood floor in the hallway. We left proper expansion gaps around the perimeter when we installed the floor but as the wood had been stored outdoors we didn't expect it to expand much anyway. WRONG!
The next time we got there, the 15mm gap between one wall and the floor had shrunk to zero and the floor was buckled. So far we haven't done anything about it. We could try to cut the floor where it hits the wall using the MultiTool (Fein Multimaster knockoff) but the boards are screwed in place and I'm not sure if the screws allow for enough movement to stop the buckling and creaking once we cut the board. The only other option is redoing everything.

Right now I'm working on something completely different. A close friend's mom asked me to help her renovate a 1960 flat. The last people moved in there when it was built and moved out feet first. Needless to say there is some updating to be done. They did occasionally re-paper the rooms (including the ceilings) but always in very old-fashioned patterns. The rooms have 10x10cm parquet tile (probably solid oak), the bathroom is tiled, the kitchen, hall and WC have/had dark green vinyl. Instant depression!

The bathroom was redone in 1971 (we found leftover tiles in a box wrapped in newspaper) and looks it - rose patterned tiles and a bath worn almost through the glazing down to the cast iron plus dripping taps and drain on the sink. The only light was provided by an 18W fluorescent batten with completely yellowed plastic cover.

The WC was even worse - dusty pink PVC tiles and yellow wall paint never(!) repainted in 50 years.

We also replaced or fixed about half the wiring in order to bring it up to modern standards and make it safe. However, heating is a disaster. There were two gas stoves, one of which was removed because it scared my friend's mom. The larger of the two bedrooms has/had an electric storage heater, a solid tiled monstrosity. Yesterday I discovered that the boss started to rip it apart and quit when she found it to be lined with asbestos. Told her that right from the beginning *sigh*

Hibernation is over

Winter was brutally cold, inside temperatures were only slightly above freezing. The two coal stoves improved things a little, but not much. During the X-mas break I did some wiring but not much else. In February we started on the floors but like everything it took us much longer than expected.

We started with concrete slab over pea gravel 10cm (4") below our desired floor level. The slab was of course cold and not perfectly dry (most likely condensation). Now of course we asked around what to do with that floor. If you know experts you can probably guess the result. We got at least as many different answers as questions. One guy recommended plastic and mineral wool, another highly recommended sealing the floor with tar paper and some eco-friendly insulation on top, the third recommended putting down rigid foam insulation and maintaining an air space below the floor and the fourth guy told us just to keep an air space.

Now if there's something I know then it's that mineral wool and moisture don't mix, so there's no way on earth I'd put it underneath a floor! Option 1 out. Option 2 had a serious flaw: the tar paper was supposed to be sealed with heat using a big propane burner. Can't exactly do that once the central heating pipes are down!  *sigh* Then we seriously considered the rigid foam especially as we could get it for free. However, having grown up with solid packed floors we were worried that wood floors on sleepers without any solid fill underneath would sound hollow underfoot and make a lot of noise. In classic construction (pre-WWII) the floors are multi-layer. First there's the actual load-bearing subfloor nailed on top of the joists. Then there's a 4" sand or dirt fill in which 2x3 sleepers rest. The finished floor is nailed to the sleepers, so it rests both on the sleepers and the dirt fill, there aren't any cavities.

Eventually we decided on our own method and hope it won't cause any trouble. First we put down heavy landscape felt as the concrete was fairly rough. Then we topped it off with the heaviest plastic we could find to waterproof the whole thing. The sleepers are supported by blocks of wood with thin scraps of cork underneath. You can see we really wanted to make sure the plastic won't get damaged!
Then we filled the whole space underneath the floor with perlite.

The biggest trouble spot was near the main door. The wall next to the camera is load-bearing and triple wythe brick, i.e. nearly 60cm thick. The brickwork continues under the door. Unfortunately it's higher than the slab and extremely uneven, so we had to cut and shim the living crap out of the sleepers there.

Now the real fun started! Things you'd actually see! For the back hall I wanted to use salvaged oak planks. A good 10 years ago I happened to pass a dumpster nearby and saw some kind of flooring. Of course I got curious and had a closer look! Turned out to be a mix of 8 and 9cm wide T&G oak planks, most of them nearly 2.5m (8') long, others about half that. The boards were in fairly bad shape, but I hoped they could be saved. Apparently the original floor had huge gaps and was extremely worn and splintery, so someone decided to screw down large sheets of 5mm pressboard and install vinyl. Some boards had a screw every 10cm. Maybe half the boards were in terrible shape, dull grey, deeply worn and splintering along the edges, but we discovered that they could in fact be planed down to good and beautiful wood. So I started removing the screws and old nails as well as cleaning up the tongues and grooves.

This does look bad, doesn't it?

The first thing we realised was that we had considerably fewer boards than I'd estimated earlier. Back when we found them I thought we had about 18sq.m., while in fact it was closer to 6, barely enough for the small hallway. Trouble really started as we began installation. The tongues and grooves didn't really fit and I had to use considerably brute force to get the boards together without huge gaps (emphasis on huge, I did get some gaps anyway).

Once we got out of the narrow section in front of the WC to the long part of the hall things quickly went from bad to worse. We discovered that the boards weren't exactly the same width (a few mm off) and some of the longer ones had nasty curves in them. Around the second or third long course we discovered big gaps that would only keep adding up as we progressed.

At that point I really started to wonder if we should continue or give up. After a lot of thinking we decided to rip out what we'd already installed and buy a new floor. It's a pity, I'm sure the wood itself would have looked terrific once sanded and oiled, but the boards were such a poor fit it wouldn't have been worth the hassle. Initially I wanted to go to the next larger town and buy wood in the big box store because they usually have anything you need in stock but then I decided to give a local lumberyard a call because it was much closer (6km rather than 25) and they most likely had better quality wood than the DIY store. They had nice larch t&g flooring in stock for a decent price and we got there barely in time to pick it up. I'm not sure if I've mentioned this before, but store opening hours are extremely restricted in most Central European countries. Supermarkets, DIY stores and other large chains are usually open from 8 or 9 AM to 7:30 or 8 PM Mon-Fri and 8 or 9 AM to 6 PM on Saturdays, closed on Sundays (ANYTHING is closed on Sundays except mini-markets in railway stations and airports). Stores that mostly cater to professionals are usually open 7 AM to 5 PM with a 2 hour lunch break around noon, Friday afternoon closed, Saturday too. If they're in a rural region Wednesday afternoons are usually closed too. So, we barely made it there until 5 and picked up our new flooring. 19 11cm wide 4m long and 18mm thick Siberian larch planks.

The large part of the room is 3.35m x 1.72m (the latter being the median as one wall is angled) so we had two options - buy 3m planks and piece them together or buy 4m planks and have some leftovers. Since we heat with wood we decided to get 4m.

Installing the new floor went considerably smoother, but it was still very time consuming.  We worked until 11 that night and got the large part almost done, except for the boards right next to the angled wall. Finishing the two little "alcoves" took us another 3 hours though.

Here you can see the weird shape of this room. At the far end the gap between the last board and the wall on the right is almost non-existant but near the door it's already fairly wide.
On the other side of the room it's more than a full board.

And now the completed result!
We still need to sand or scrape the floor a little as the boards aren't perfectly the same thickness and then we have to oil the floor of course.

Once we finished installing the floor I immediately started on the next room putting down the felt and plastic. At that point I stopped because we wanted to go home and my muscles were extremely sore. Hopefully next time we can get the floor done in there which would give us one nearly finished room (minus door trim, painting and installing switches and outlets).

Oh, and still no decision on the tile... *sigh*
I like this floor tile but it's 20x20cm and doesn't go too well with 15x15cm wall tiles.

We might go for black and white 15x15 floor tile (think chess board) and white wall tile. I did manage to find black 15cm wide trim pieces for a decent price but unfortunately in what appears to be a  small tile store at the other end of the country. In Vienna we can only get 2.5x20 and 5x20 border tiles. Then of course there's my personal favourite, replica art-nouveau tile in all colours of the rainbow but that's insanely expensive. Last time I asked it was €144/sq. m. Plain white 15x15 or 20x20 at the DIY store is €5.99. Even Villeroy&Boch tiles don't really go beyond €100.